Episode Number: 1019
Episode Guest: Bryan Fogel
Original Airdate: October 4, 2017
Episode Sponsors: Onnit, ZipRecruiter, Audible.com, Blinkist
Guest Bio: Bryan Fogel is an American film director, producer, author, and playwright. His documentary Icarus, available now on Netflix, documents the uncovering of the Russian doping scandal.
Topics Discussed: The initial idea behind the Icarus documentary was Lance Armstrong; Lance Armstrong and the doping allegations; he wanted to explore what was wrong with the anti-doping system in other sports; pro cyclist caught with engine in bicycle; the scientists he interviewed don’t think anti-doping works or that they could catch those who do dope; getting his samples into the WADA lab; connecting with Grigory Rodchenkov; experts believe high-level athletes and Olympians couldn’t win without doping; Grigory agreed to help Bryan dope and not get caught; Bryan grew up cycling and racing; talk about a bad bike crash he suffered at 19 years old; what he took before his clean race; he took 14th out of 440 guys in his clean race; six months after the race he started doping; German TV documentary about Russian doping; the people he interviewed for his documentary didn’t know he was working with Rodchenkov; he flew Rodchenkov to the US to keep him from being killed; Grigory brought the evidence of Russian doping to the United States; Russia used state-sponsored doping in sports to assert its geopolitical power; China was doping for the Olympics according to Grigory; tamper-proof urine collection bottles; Russia figured out how to open and reseal these bottles with clean urine; Russia swapped urine through a literal hole in the wall; how was doping done in previous Olympics; Grigory was helping athletes cheat while developing tests to reveal steroids; he figured out how to take steroids so they weren’t detected; Russia swapped urine so its athletes could be doped to the gills; Russia spent $50 billion on the Sochi Olympics; Putin used his increased approval rating after the Olympics to go to war with Ukraine; Russia and the 2016 summer Olympics; (1:00:00) forensic testing was done on the Russian urine bottles and it was discovered that they were tampered with; talk about testing the swapped Russian urine and discovering table salt; Russia was not banned from the 2016 Olympics despite evidence of doping; 1,000 athletes across all sports were doping; McLaren report; the Olympics didn’t protect the rights of clean athletes; the Olympics is a business and there’s no interest in catching or punishing athletes; thousands of clean athletes essentially had their medals stolen; they are hoping this will be forgotten and swept under the rug; “Russia’s Olympic Cheating, Unpunished” article by Grigory for The New York Times; Russia denies that this happened and blames Grigory; Russia issued an arrest warrant for Grigory; connecting Russia with our election process; we have evidence of doping but not of election tampering; Russian athletes had medals stripped; Russia is not our friend though it pretends to be; WADA didn’t want to hear that it was incompetent; WADA is in bed with the IOC; WADA was established to make the Olympics look clean; WADA has no power to enforce punishment; IAAF doping controversy; he has no contact with Grigory and is worried about him; Grigory might never be able to see his family again; GoFundMe for Grigory; Russia wants Grigory dead; Putin says he doesn’t remember Grigory’s name; Russia is painting Grigory as a criminal; what things have been like for Bryan; he had to move his production office because he may have been under surveillance; it was hard to find a lawyer because many were connected to Russia; Nikita Kamaev death; 14 Russian deaths on British soil; more Grigory talk; athletes should compete clean; humans are still evolving; Juan Enriquez on evolution; the future of humans and athletics; what is natural and unnatural; Aleksandr Karelin; Russian wrestlers; Fedor Emelianenko; doping in the UFC and USADA; someone could be charged with manslaughter if they were doping and killed someone during a UFC fight; Olympic athletes get basically no money; US athletes aren’t paid to be in the Olympics, but in Russia and China, they’re employees of the government; no one cares about Olympic sports (swimming, gymnastics, etc.) unless it’s at the Olympics; NBC pays $7.75 billion for rights to air the Olympics; Olympic doctors accepted millions of dollars in bribes to cover up positive drug tests; Jamaica and its runners; (2:00:00) it’s a big deal to have a top athlete represent a country; Maria Sharapova was doping and lied about her age; Serena Williams locked herself in her safe room in drug test “mix-up”; Jon Jones positive drug test; it’s hard psychologically to go off drugs; more Lance Armstrong talk; CRISPR and gene editing; young blood infusions; what is the solution to doping; how athletics affects a country’s pride; meldonium; what if the US government was sponsoring athletes; Russia would sacrifice athletes with positive drug tests to make it look as if they were strictly testing; Russia was swapping urine samples with clean urine thanks to its urine database; Russian and Chinese athletes are scared to speak out against the government; McLaren drops charges of state-sponsored doping program; Mikhail Khodorkovsky, richest man in Russia, was jailed; Russia/USA election talk; it’s hard to keep things private today; Joe thinks we will be able to read peoples’ minds in the future; Minority Report movie; more talk about the Russian doping scheme; deleted information was recovered from a laptop and used as evidence; data recovery is like reading minds; what’s next after photos and video; virtual reality; more talk about possible future technologies; bulletproof skin made of spider silk and human cells; government programs and scientists; stealth aircraft; Russia supported Putin invading Ukraine after the Olympics; sports is religion to some people; you can’t stop technology; we’re always going to make better shit; America is an example of what’s possible; artificial intelligence is a lifeform; humans are limited by evolution; 1984 positive drug test cover-up; Dick Pound; Richard/Dick; John/Jack; more Dick Pound talk; Dick Pound and Ben Johnson; more Ben Johnson talk; Grigory can look at someone and tell what they’re taking; Bryan talks about storing his urine to take to Russia.
These are the movies that were mentioned and/or recommended during this episode:
Podcast Video: Below is a video of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode #1019 available for streaming via YouTube.
Podcast Audio: Audio for this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast is available through Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, Stitcher, or you can download the MP3 directly to add it to the audio player of your choice.